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Unknown Vessel, anyone know?

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    The Gunung Djati was built in Germany in 1936 and didn't become a Blue Flu ship before after WWII. The bow and stern is also different from the one seen in Geiranger in 1937.
    Edit: Original name; PRETORIA (German) 45 EMPIRE DOON - 49 EMPIRE ORWELL - 59 GUNUNG DJATI (British) 79 TANJUNG PANDAN (Indon.) BU Taiwan 1987
    Last edited by ombugge; June 16th, 2010, 08:02. Reason: additional info

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      I'm not an old ships specialist, but the photo and clues that were given sent me searching for this ship:



      I'm not sure that this is a "Blue Flu" ship at all. We don't know if this annotation is a qualified fact or somebodys guess. As said before I have not found a single Blue Flu ship (OK, almost none) with two funnels, and neither one with the lines of a liner like this.

      This is a classical Blue Flu ship, with great cargo decks and a big house amidships:



      From the photo, we don't know if the funnels really are blue. They could be any other light painted color, they are rendered in the same tone in black and white. If you see old White Star ships, you will see the same. In fact, I have found White Star ships that resembles this one, but I have not found a smiliar one. So here are room for more detective work.

      White Star Albertic:

      Last edited by Sigve; June 17th, 2010, 20:32.
      Regards; Sigve.
      ---
      IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

      Comment


        Originally posted by Sigve View Post
        I'm not a old ships specialist, but the photo and clues that were given sent me searching for this ship:



        I'm not sure that this is a "Blue Flu" ship at all. We don't know if this annotation is a qualified fact or somebody's guess. As said before I have not found a single Blue Flu ship (OK, almost none) with two funnels, and neither one with the lines of a liner like this.

        This is a classical Blue Flu ship, with great cargo decks and a big house amidships:




        From the photo, we don't know if the funnels really are blue. They could be any other light painted color, they are rendered in the same tone in black and white. If you see old White Star ships, you will see the same. In fact, I have found White Star ships that resembles this one, but I have not found a similar one. So here are room for more detective work.

        White Star Albertic:

        Sigve, you are right. We only have the word of whoever posted the original pics that it was a Blue Flu ship.
        It doesn't look like it could be the Albertic, since the funnels are leaning astern on the one in question, or at least appears to.

        Comment


          No, the Albertic it was not, she was scrapped in 1934. This is what I found about her:

          Built by the North German Lloyd Line and originally named Munchen. Acquired by the Royal Mail Line as a war reparation vessel. (WWI) Name changed to Albertic by White Star when purchased from Royal Mail Line. Scrapped in 1934. She ran the Liverpool to Canada route.
          The Albertic probably never was in Geiranger, at least not in 1937. I think that the ship in the photo is smaller, and with a lower superstructure. Maybe with an open bridge. I have not made up my mind if I can see life boats in two heigths, or only in one...
          Regards; Sigve.
          ---
          IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

          Comment


            It would be great fun to design a database driven website that recorded all the details of each ship...

            Length
            Displacement
            Hull colour
            Funnel number
            Funnel colour
            Owner
            Name (of course)
            Photo

            etc etc. by years also and then allow it to be searchable by setting any/all of the fields.

            I've got a software licence that I could easily adapt to allow me to do this, it would be fairly simple to construct but I'm not sure if I could manage to research and enter all the data.

            Comment


              It would be great fun to design a database driven website that recorded all the details of each ship...
              Wouldn't that be a good project for our Captain; a database for all ships of all times! The all time high CV ships register!

              PS; I have now seen cars license plates with the letter combination CV. Hurray for our captain!
              Regards; Sigve.
              ---
              IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

              Comment


                Originally posted by ombugge View Post
                Well since we don't have anything on the vessel above yet. I believe she may be an early "Danskebaat"?

                Meanwhile, I'll throw in another old ship which I don't know the name of:


                All I know is that the text says; "Geiranger Blue Flu 1937". That narrows it down to a few ships, I should say.
                I can't help but think she looks very like White Star Line's (USS) Zepplin of 1914.

                On this website where there is a photograph and details, it says she struck rocks (pic) in 1934 near Haugesund when cruising with the name Dresden.

                It would mean the date for the photos was wrong if it was this ship but I wonder if there were other ships of similar build?

                Comment


                  There is already a very coprahencive database: http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/

                  Unfortunately - a couple of months ago- , the author decided to make a paysite.

                  Comment


                    Ombugge:

                    Is there a chance that you can scan this picture in a higher resolution? I think she has got an open bridge (can't see a wheelhouse) and that may be she has lifeboats in 2 heights.
                    I think we are not even near an identification....
                    But let's keep up the pressure!
                    Last edited by Sigve; June 17th, 2010, 22:08.
                    Regards; Sigve.
                    ---
                    IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Nichu View Post
                      There is already a very coprahencive database: http://www.miramarshipindex.org.nz/

                      Unfortunately - a couple of months ago- , the author decided to make a paysite.
                      That looks interesting, think I might take out the trial and see more. I don't blame people for making pay-sites depending on whether the majority of the site has been made by themselves or whether the work has all been done by others

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Sigve View Post
                        PS; I have now seen cars license plates with the letter combination CV. Hurray for our captain!
                        Yeapp, that was my work indeed!
                        With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                        Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                        Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

                        Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Sigve View Post
                          Ombugge:

                          Is there a chance that you can scan this picture in a higher resolution? I think she has got an open bridge (can't see a wheelhouse) and that may be she has lifeboats in 2 heights.
                          I think we are not even near an identification....
                          But let's keep up the pressure!
                          Sorry, can't even remember where I got this one from, but it was from the internet somewhere.

                          I'm asking on another site where there is more old "Men of Blue Flue" than you can shake a stick at. (And a few "Gentlemen of British India")
                          We'll see if someone there will take an interest.

                          PS: There is Sea Plane on the pics. Looks like it has just landed. Maybe Sterkoder can tell us which one it is, ones he is through celebrating his birthday.
                          Last edited by ombugge; June 18th, 2010, 11:57. Reason: Add PS

                          Comment


                            I believe the seaplane to be one of Wideroe's two Wacos.

                            LN-ABE Waco UIC regd 20.01.34 and sold to Sweden as SE-AFF 16.10.36 or
                            LN-ABW Waco UKC regd 19.06.34 and sold to Sweden as SE-AFM 19.01.37.

                            http://www.skattora.com/lft-no4-waco.html

                            edit:

                            Could also be Waco YKS LN-EAO of Vest-Norges Flyveselskap. Regd 23.04.37 - sold to Sweden 05.09.46 as SE-ANG.

                            http://lndecals.com/limited_editions.html
                            Last edited by Nichu; June 18th, 2010, 12:48.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ombugge View Post
                              I'm asking on another site where there is more old "Men of Blue Flue" than you can shake a stick at. (And a few "Gentlemen of British India") We'll see if someone there will take an interest.
                              Two suggestion already back on my query, both suggesting the Monte Olivia, 1924:


                              or Monte Sarmiento, 1925:

                              Both these vessels were German and did some cruising in the 1930s.

                              There was an earlier suggestion that it was a White Star liner. (ex Zeppelin):


                              Here is something that makes that very unlikely as she was only with White Star Line for a short while and much too early to make this possible:

                              Zeppelin was built in 1915 for Norddeutschen Lloyd, but was laid up throughout the First World War. She was passed to the UK in 1919 as war reparation for U-boat losses, and was placed under White Star management whilst awaiting a buyer. I have found no detailed records of what she was used for by White Star, although one book refers her to doing some work with the US Navy (troop movements back to the US?). She appears to be in White Star Line colours in the card, which is titled RMS Zeppelin ion the front. There are publisher details on the reverse. The brown lifeboats are apparently what she was delivered with from Germany. It seems unusual to print such a card in the chaotic times just after the war. In 1920 she was bought by the Orient Line and went for refitting. Her first voyage with Orient Line was from London to Australia on 12th November 1921, by then renamed Ormuz. I am assuming the writer of the card was on this voyage, since it was posted from Gibraltar. It is postmarked 23rd November 1923 in London, presumably on its arrival back there on a return ship. No doubt plenty of cards as Zeppelin were still in stock, and Orient may not have had time to print their own card. Did Orient issue an official card as Ormuz? I do not have one, just a local card whilst on a cruise in Norway. The writer says he was on his way to India - did Orient Line ships call at India on the way to Australia? I believe that they took coal at Colombo.
                              I don't think this can be declared solved yet though.

                              Comment


                                Guy`s I have one for you. My Great Uncle Harry served and died aboard the Empress Of Ireland and when my Aunt found out I was a ship geek she handed me a cigar box, in this box was some pics of Great Uncle Harry, a press cutting about the Empress sinking, A postcard of the Empress, a postcard of the Storstad after the collision and this picture of a unnamed vessel.



                                I have tried to determine the name of this vessel and the line she sailed for, for some time now. Best of luck chaps.

                                Bill

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