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ex-USS PCE833, ex-HMS Kilham, ex-Sognefjord, ex-Orion, ex-Orion II, ex-Corona, Orient Explorer /+ sisters

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    That's showing just fine! But please do not change the way you post because of what i mentioned. I only mentioned it in case others experienced the same thing. It certainly was not a problem once i realised what was happening.

    But out of interest, would your last post have been the same size if you had uploaded direct to the forum?, or does it get resized when uploading to CV? You can see a lot of detail in the large image.
    Last edited by Steve.B; June 5th, 2009, 00:26.
    Your charts, your radar, your eyes and ears - if all 4 agree, you may proceed with caution.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Steve.B View Post
      ... i find myself looking at this vessel in a different light. I now find myself looking at these photos about just how old she really is, and just how much history is behind her. It was just brilliant hearing the accounts of someone who walked her decks so long ago during the second world war.


      I am interested in getting the feel of exactly how HMS Kilham looked on deck during the '43-'45 period, to grasp more of an idea of the conditions my father would have endured, to help bring it more to life. The more I source it provides a fantastic contrast to see the austere military style compared to the later passenger refit.

      Photos available online of Kilham seem limited to distant views of the ship, but the one aged photo supplied by my father of the group of crewmates does show something of on-board life.

      By taking a leaf out of Orionboy's book and looking through photos of some of the other PCE Class ships it has revealed some outstanding finds and, as the ships were mass produced to the same design, even though they may not be of Kilham, they give a great insight into how HMS Kilham is likely to have looked on deck - cramped with the available space majoring on fitting in her armaments; but then, afterall, she was a fighting ship.

      Click on the following links to get a good all round feel of life on deck on the PCE ships in 1943-1945.

      (The first 9 links are all to PCE-846 Eunice, US Navy. Launched, 20 December 1943; Commissioned USS PCE-846, 4 March 1944.)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284603.jpg (In the Atlantic, dynamic shot)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284607.jpg (A view towards her stern)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284608.jpg (Another view towards her stern and the depth charge racks)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284609.jpg (A view towards the stern, crew preparing for a mail pick up)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284610.jpg (Grabbing mailbag dropped by aircraft)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284611.jpg (Rescue practice with the whaleboat)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284613.jpg (Whaleboat being lowered)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284614.jpg (Whaleboat being lowered)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120284615.jpg (View looking down towards the bow)



      (PCE(R855 Rexburg, US Navy. Launched, 10 April 1944; Commissioned USS PCE(R855, 1 November 1944)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120285515.jpg (Having casualties transferred, off Okinawa)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120285513.jpg (Cleaning the 3"/50 gun)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120285514.jpg (Taking green water over the bow)



      (PCE-856 Whitehall (US Navy). Launched, 21 April 1944; Commissioned USS PCE(R856, 11 November 1944)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202085603.jpg (Close up, c. Spring 1962)



      (PCE-828, HMS Kilbride. Launched 15 May 1943; Transferred to Great Britain 31 July 1943 as HMS Kilbride (Z 02); Reclassified BEC-2)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120282801.jpg (Aerial photo showing deck layout)

      http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120282802.jpg (Three quarter view from aircraft showing depth charge racks)

      Comment


        Pictorial links to decktop views of similar ships

        I would also like to place links to some shots from the references supplied by Orionboy:



        (PCE-1604, Launched, 30 July 1953. Commissioned, 4 May 1954 as the Dutch Corvette HNLMS Fret [Ferret] (F 818) )

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202160404.jpg (7 June 1954. Men aboard the Fret undergoing training with the Fleet Training Group, Chesapeake Bay, Norfolk, VA. Gun crew on the 3"/50 goes to General Quarters.)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202160405.jpg (7 June 1954. Signaling on the bridge is M.C.V. Gelder, QSM2, left, and G. V .D. Horst, QSM2.)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202160406.jpg (7 June 1954. Prepare to lower the life boat during abandon ship drill.)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202160409.jpg (Stern showing the depth charge racks)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202160410.jpg (Main deck, looking aft at 3"/50 mount and Pilot House.)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/1202160408.jpg (View looking up from harbourside)






        (Admirable Class Minesweeper AM-139 Agent. Launched 1 November 1942; Completed 10 July 1943 and transferred to the Soviet Union as T-112 the same day. Abandoned 31 January 1991.The following photos are of the rusting hulk, 10 June 2007)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/110213907.jpg (Starboard side view )

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/110213908.jpg (Looking aft)

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/110213909.jpg (Looking forward )

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/110213910.jpg (Port side 20mm gun tub )

        http://www.navsource.org/archives/11/110213903.jpg (In her former glory)

        Comment


          Sognefjord

          I agree that what is missing here is some stories from her 32 years trading Sogn - Bergen and her film career in "Orion's Belt". There must be thousands of people who travelled on her regularly during all those years. Some of her crew may still be around as well, but obviously not posting on this forum. We need to invite them. Anybody with friends or relatives who may fit the above?

          I see in Orionboy's post that he have had contact with Lars Helge Isdahl, who appears to have some connection to the Sognefjord and is a passionate Shipspotter, with pics posted on many maritime sites. Would it be possible to invite him to this one? (I cannot find any contact address)

          There is also Hugo Carl Lutcherath, who has written about the KIL class vessels that became ferries in Norway; http://www.stp-norway.com/CS/CSM/HVITEFLAATE/HCL/1.htm
          I have tried to send him an invite, but the e-mail address given does not appear to work any more.

          As for her present owner, I have established contact and awaiting their latest "report" back soon.

          Thanks to Paul Cobb for the stories from his Father and the extensive research effort he has done since joining CV Forum.

          Comment


            Paul Cobb wrote: The more I source it provides a fantastic contrast to see the austere military style compared to the later passenger refit.

            Her is two pics taken from his posting and compared with the pics I took of the Orient Explorer in Langkawi, which started off this thread:

            F 818 Bow.


            Orient Explorer Bow. No difference in the actual hull structure.


            F 818 Stern.


            Orient Explorer stern with the Ferry ramp fitted for her service as Sognefjord, but the original stern configuration appears to be still intact below.

            (Sorry, couldn't find a close-up pic in my files)

            Conclusion: Totally gutted and changed above deck, but hull and machinery basically intact.

            Comment


              Nadodd

              There was one more of the KIL class that ended up in Norway, but did not become a ferry:
              PCE 834 - HMS Kilkenzie - Nadodd (Cargo Ship) - Scrapped 1978
              She was converted to cargo ship and traded in Norway and the North Sea until 1952 and was scrapped in Manila in 1978.
              This is what is know of her: http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/02834.htm

              The picture as Nadodd is credited to Hugo C. Lütcherath, Bergen, Norway.
              He is obviously someone with a lot of knowledge and interest in the ships we are discussing on this forum. Can someone locate him and invite him to this forum?

              Comment


                Originally posted by orionboy View Post
                One thing that is missing is the launch photo of PCE 833, what i think exists , because i found one photo of launching the PCE 827 (hms kilbernie,m/s haugesund)http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/120282705.jpg
                Orionboy: that's a superb shot of the launching of HMS Kilbernie (the first of the Kil Class) - thanks. On looking through lots of the PCE photos on NavSource, that appears to be typical of the launching ceremonies, ie draped with stars and stripes pennants. Don't know if a similar one of Kilham is likely to exist, however.

                BTW, a US-based international Patrol Craft veteran Sailor Association exists. Founded 1986, they have 1,800 active members with representatives from 50 US States and others residing in Canada, Australia, Great Britain and Norway. Their files hold names of 3,000 former patrol craft crewmen.

                www.ww2pcsa.org/patrol-craft-sailors.html

                Comment


                  Patrol Craft Sailor Association

                  I have emailed the President of the Patrol Craft Sailor Association, Robert Ambrogi Snr, inviting him to visit this thread and for him to publicise it amongst his membership, if he finds it of interest.

                  Age of actual crew is now a factor, but they have a museum and invite honorary membership from spouses and relatives.

                  Who knows, some more fascinating and hitherto unknown details may come to light.
                  Last edited by Paul Cobb; June 5th, 2009, 13:02. Reason: Typos

                  Comment


                    orions belte

                    Hello again!

                    Because we all are now waiting some people in norway who have travelled or worked in m/s Sognefjord and in m/s Orion (orions belte movie) to join this this forum i put some captured pics here ,which are from the making of movie orions belte document.



                    And i also try to get some contact to Lars helge Isdahl, i dont know what happened; but last fall was last time i get email from him.I know that hes working for the Fjord 1 company (previously Fylkesbaatane) which owned m/s sognefjord and m/s sunnfjord.He said to me ,because i asked if he can get some timetables etc abt m/s sognefjord and sunnfjord ,that he will try to get some info from the company(Fjord 1) and he also said that one of his friend was working in m/s sunnfjord and he might have some photos of this almost identical sister of m/s sognefjord.

                    Comment


                      m/s sunnfjord

                      Some scanned pics from the norwegian book abt the six sisters.
                      Photos are taken by Alf johan Kristiansen (i think he also have some info and plenty pics of these ships)

                      m/s Sunnfjord under tow to be converted as office ship 22.10.1983

                      I think last photo of m/s sunnfjord is this one , because few hours after this she sank.(better way to "die" like that then to be scrapped)

                      Comment


                        m/s sunnfjord and m/s sognefjord

                        Some more pretty photos, then previous.
                        I found these from internet 1 year ago (dont remember the site anymore)
                        They look like a postcards, but still nice shots from the early years From norway

                        m/s sunnfjord

                        m/s sognefjord
                        Biggest differencies are the funnel and foremast , which both are taller in m/s sognefjord

                        Comment


                          First of all, a big thank you very much for making this one of the most entertaining and interesting posts on this CV Forum.... the way this post grows, I'm getting astonished how much I have been able to learn about this ship.

                          Thank you very much all once again, keep it up.

                          Originally posted by Steve.B View Post
                          But out of interest, would your last post have been the same size if you had uploaded direct to the forum?, or does it get resized when uploading to CV? You can see a lot of detail in the large image.
                          If uploaded to the CV forum database, the images does get re-sized quite a bit as they would otherwise quickly fill up our dedicated server space. When uploading to other servers, such as for example Photobucket, they are on other independent servers, and won't affect the stability and congestion on our own server.

                          Normally, we prefer picture width no wider than 900 pixels, unless they need to be bigger to be readable (such as for example newspaper articles).
                          With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                          Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                          Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

                          Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                          Comment


                            Patrol Craft Sailors Association

                            Originally posted by Paul Cobb View Post
                            I have emailed the President of the Patrol Craft Sailor Association, Robert Ambrogi Snr, inviting him to visit this thread and for him to publicise it amongst his membership, if he finds it of interest.

                            Age of actual crew is now a factor, but they have a museum and invite honorary membership from spouses and relatives.

                            Who knows, some more fascinating and hitherto unknown details may come to light.
                            I have received a reply to my email to Robert Ambrogi Snr (see above), as follows:

                            "> Dear Paul,
                            >
                            > Thank you for your email dated 6/5/09 and the information you provided.
                            > Have you checked the website www.navsource.org? The following paragraph was lifted from that site.
                            >
                            > "There were 68 Patrol Craft Escort vessels built and delivered to the U.
                            > S. Navy and an additional 17 delivered under the Lend-Lease Program to
                            > allies during WW II. PCE's were an inexpensive substitute for larger and
                            > more valuable DD's and DE's. Though not much longer than a PC, the 180
                            > foot steel hulled PCE's tonnage is more than twice as great. Its speed is
                            > 15 knots, diesel propelled and armed with dual-purpose 3"/50 gun, three
                            > 40mm guns, five 20mm guns, two depth charge tracks, and ten K-Guns. PCE's
                            carried a considerable amount of detection and ranging gear for locating
                            > submarines. The PCE was designed for general escort work, whereas the
                            > PC's stayed near the harbors and worked only with coastal convoys. Some
                            > PCE's were converted to PCE(R) Rescue Escorts while others were converted
                            to Amphibious Control Vessels PCE C)." You might find other useful information at this site.
                            >
                            > Because PCE-833 was part of the Lend-Lease Program, we don't keep those
                            > records in our Association. To find your Ship's History, you might write
                            > to the following address:
                            >
                            > Naval Historical Center
                            > Ship's History Branch
                            > Washington Navy Yard, Building 220-2
                            > Washington, DC 20374
                            > www.history.navy.mil
                            >
                            > There is a service charge. Send hull number, name, and year(s) on ship.
                            >
                            > Smooth sailing,
                            >
                            > Robert R. Ambrogi, PC-1170
                            > President, Patrol Craft Sailors Association"


                            The link www.navsource.org we are already aware of, which is where many of the historic Kil Class photos have come from, and the site www.history.navy.mil basically takes you to DANFS which states they do not have details of the lend lease ships.

                            Robert has forwarded the CaptainsVoyage thread details to other members of the Patrol Craft Sailors Association, however, so further information may yet be forthcoming.
                            Last edited by Paul Cobb; June 8th, 2009, 00:05.

                            Comment


                              Can a ship have 'feelings'?

                              Originally posted by orionboy View Post


                              m/s Sunnfjord under tow to be converted as office ship 22.10.1983
                              I find this an amazing, yet very sad, photograph of the Sunnfjord. After having been laid up for several years and then on her way, listing, to a new lease of life but to only succeed in sinking...

                              Because of the angle of list, the photo provides a good view of her deck arrangement, but the real sorrow is in the apparent interpretation that she has been weeping brown tears over her years of inactivity.

                              Does she still lie in her watery grave? Or was she salvaged?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Paul Cobb View Post
                                I find this an amazing, yet very sad, photograph of the Sunnfjord. After having been laid up for several years and then on her way, listing, to a new lease of life but to only succeed in sinking...

                                Because of the angle of list, the photo provides a good view of her deck arrangement, but the real sorrow is in the apparent interpretation that she has been weeping brown tears over her years of inactivity.

                                Does she still lie in her watery grave? Or was she salvaged?
                                I'm not surprised to learn that shortly after this image was taken, she actually sunk. Looking at the list, and the open (?) shelldoor just aft of midships, only a small additional list would be enough. A very sad image indeed.
                                With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                                Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                                Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

                                Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                                Comment

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