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ex HARALD JARL ::: ex ANDREA ::: SERENISSIMA :::

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    I must say welcome to the forum Kristinehannon, and like other members i must also say thank you for the information you have shared with us. Great to see your photos, but not so good hearing about your circumstances regarding your parting with the ship. I certainly hope that you do at least get some of what you are owed, but i guess that will be dependent on a buyer being found for the ship. I keep my fingers crossed for both you and the 'Andrea' in that respect.

    Rolling at 42 degrees on any ship/boat is not fun, but even worse if your on a ship that is prone to engine problems, i would also be rather concerned, obviously your skipper was not deliberately steering a course that would give you the most uncomfortable ride possible, so the thought of your main engine giving up and leaving you prone to even worse conditions is rather alarming given that you were already rolling to 42 degrees. It's not surprising your mooring deck looked such a mess!
    Your charts, your radar, your eyes and ears - if all 4 agree, you may proceed with caution.

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      It is very important to get so detailed information. And it gives a clear imagination what can happen to a ship when it is not well maintained and getting tired. Is it a correct guess that the damages cause of movements of the entire superstructure of the ship??

      Reading such descriptions and about the engine problems have to make us believe that the called price is absolutely ridiculous... like the behavior of Hypo Alpe Adria, which is absolutely in a need to make cosmetics in their books with such numbers. Maybe the time she is moored there depends on the time, how long this cosmetic operation for the bank is necessary. No good times for lovers of ships veterans... I would though love Hurtigruten to keep an eye on her and save her before scrapping. There would be some job and a worlking concept for her in Norway...
      Lofoten '07 ...... Nordnorge '11

      Comment


        Sure, Andrea will never sail in Hurtigruten again. At the moment I fear MS Lofoten doesn't come back in service, too. The time in the shipyard is prolonged each week. Maybe it is better not to ask talfh what he think about the repair of the machine....

        Same with Andrea because of the very special machine and the problems to get spare parts for it, only friends of old ships could be interested in it. I don't think she will ever sail in commercial service again.

        The idea to save her in Trondheim failed, I fear they will not do another try.
        But maybe it is interesting for the members here. Yesterday I found an old brochure about it. In a tidy house you will find everything immediately. I needed to search for many hours...

        I have cut the names and adresses on the last side. Not sure if it is allowed publishing things, which are not my copyright. Hope it is okay...
        Helgeland, please don't ask me for the translation in English, but if you are bored you can do it.





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          A great roller

          Yes, I bet she was rolling. The whole class of this ships were "great rollers". When I visited Andrea in Bergen in the summer of 2008, captain Juranovic told me that there was much rolling, but that she apart from that was a good and seaworthy ship.
          I am wondering; Andrea (that is; Harald Jarl and their class) was built for tackling rough weather conditions along our long coast, but never more than an hour or two away from the nearest port, where they could hide and wait for better weather. But how good are these ships on the high seas, (Drake Passage) where the weather can be extreme for days, and there is no port to hide in? Andrea in Antarctic conditions is not the same as Harald Jarl in a Vestfjorden storm? I don't know if I'm right.

          As a "proof" of the class' habit of strong rolling, I enclose a picture of Andreas sister, Lofoten, on Hustadvika in strong breeze. I have read some cruise reviews by passengers, and they complained about the rolling. I don't know how many degrees she is listing, but something tells me that not all passengers were comfortable in this sea.


          ---
          Regards; Sigve.
          [IMG][/IMG]
          Last edited by Sigve; May 6th, 2010, 19:01.
          Regards; Sigve.
          ---
          IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

          Comment


            During my short time on board Harald Jarl (way back in 1985) I got the impression she had "rudder-stabilisation" - a system that uses the rudder's heel effect to help correct wind/wave induced roll. This gives a slight weave to a ships heading as it steers into each roll. The alternative, hydroplane-stabilisation, is more effective but comes at a greater cost and (as far as I know) is generally installed on build - not as an afterthought - due (I expect) to the need for the right hull form. I have no more than rudiments of knowledge in this area.

            If I'm right that Harald Jarl was rudder-stabilised, then I expect the system was fitted some time after her original build in 1960. Does anyone know?

            Clipper
            ---------------------------
            Harald Jarl, Honningsvag to Svolvaer, Summer 1985.
            Deck plan geek.

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              In the past I had the feeling Harald Jarls movements were different from Lofoten and Nordstjernen. She often rolled, stopped, rolled another distance to the same direction. I don't know the reason, but in a description about Andrea I read something about large bilge keels?
              Have Lofoten and Nordstjernen bilge keels, too? If they stop rolling the next motion is to the other side. Sorry, I am not a sailor and I cannot explain it better.

              I agree that all old Hurtigruten ships were great rollers. I remember once I left my cabin on MS Lofoten and I thought there was no difference between walking on the floor or on the wall.
              I love rolling ships, but after some days in rough sea I am very tired. It is straining gliding through the bed all nights.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Eilun View Post
                In the past I had the feeling Harald Jarls movements were different from Lofoten and Nordstjernen. She often rolled, stopped, rolled another distance to the same direction.
                Though it was quite calm when I was on board Harald Jarl, this is exactly the motion I remember and interpreted as being caused by rudder-stab but maybe the bilge arrangement was responsible. That is certainly at least a good theory.

                Clipper
                ---------------------------
                Harald Jarl, Honningsvag to Svolvaer, Summer 1985.
                Deck plan geek.

                Comment


                  More about rolling of the Andrea class of ships

                  I have always read about Hurtigrutens tough little ships, fighting their way in all kinds of weather, even in the worst winter storms they were always on time in the next port, never giving up, beeing the lifeline of our coast....
                  I have always believed that these ships were very seaworthy.
                  Until a captain in Hurtigruten, having served on the old ships, told me, «De båtan dær, de rulle no så j....» (Those ships, they roll like h...). Another captain looked back and said: «Åja, det var mangt et bukkeritt...» (There were many buckrides).
                  So I wonder, how can a rolling ship (we have heard about Andrea rolling until 42 degrees) be a seaworthy ship at the same time? At least, it isn't very comfortable to the passengers?
                  ---
                  Regards Sigve.
                  Regards; Sigve.
                  ---
                  IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

                  Comment


                    As far as I know, Andrea does not have any stabilazers. That is at least what Captain Eric Juvanovic told me when I was on board. Andrea always rolled, even in flat calm seas. In the Drake Passage we had an average roll of about 25 degrees. Worsed we had was 42 and I can assure you that is not comfortable at all! At that time we had all cutlery flying to one side of the ship and we spend more than 2 hours picking up the pieces on hands and knees. We had passengers being thrown down together with their attached seats, ripping them from the floor. You can see on my Flickr pictures the damage caused to the ship itself and the mess on the mooring deck. Nobody was allowed outside and we had water coming in at the reception on deck 5. Waves were breaking and hitting the bridge's windows like we were in a submarine. In the middle of the night we went knocking on all passengers cabines to see if everyone was OK. We were strapped into our beds and people got hurt.
                    I can tell you that Andrea was in fact not seaworthy for the Drake and if we would have had a major storm I wouldn't be writing this anymore. Honestly.

                    Condition for zodiac operation were bad as we lost an anchor and the port side gangway was broken at the beginning of the Antarctic season and was never repaired. So whatever the sea conditions, swells and waves we always had to use the same gangway even if it was the wrong side at that moment.

                    Here a picture of the average rolling in the Drake Passage. Let's say a normal day at the Drake.

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                      Wave hitting the bridge window on deck 7



                      Average roll in the Drake



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                        That is a great shot, never mind the conditions, just keep on smiling! (First photo on aft deck)
                        But seriously, your continued story and that photo proves that she simply is not designed to be any sort of cruise ship in those sort of waters. From experience i know just how tiring it is to work under those conditions, and no matter how well prepared you are, you will always be clearing up a mess. Prolonged rolling like that is not fun for either the crew or the pax - with the occasional exceptions of some passengers that will only come aboard if the weather forecast is bad (we have a CV member who is like that). On trips like that it takes two people just to make a cup of tea! I quite like a short session of heavy rolling - (especially if we have clients onboard), especially if im sitting comfortably in my seat on the bridge, but after a while i soon tire of watching the contents of supposedly secured lockers flying across the floor.

                        Now i have to ask, if the 'Andrea' had not run into her financial difficulties, would you have gone out on another cruise with her? Or would that trip have put you off?
                        Your charts, your radar, your eyes and ears - if all 4 agree, you may proceed with caution.

                        Comment


                          What we have heard lately in this thread, shows us that it was a mistake to relocate Andrea from her daily struggle along the norwegian coast to a careeer as a cruise ship on the high seas, and especially in such extreme locations as Antarktis.
                          This will sadden many friends of her class of ships, but the fact stands clear: She was not constructed for this kind of traffic.
                          I knew from before that she was a great roller, but not like we have heard in this thread (you can't take passengers to sea on a cruise with rolling like wthat the pix above shows us).
                          Being a great fan of Andrea, I had some thoughts about taking a cruise with her, but I never would have gone to open sea with her, knowing what I have learnt now. Sad!
                          Andrea/Harald Jarl is the only one of the earlier coastal steamers which has tried a career as a cruise ship in extreme waters, and with a bad result. Sad x 2!
                          But apart from this; Andrea/Harald Jarl was a great ship which could have done a great job in more sheltered waters (cruises in Nordic waters, Mediteranean, western Europe a.s.o.). Her conversion into a cruise ship was a very sympathetic one, and she lokoked great in her new cloathing.
                          What remains is that Andrea/Harald Jarl was a great work horse in her first life, but she didn't manage her second life. And now she is arrested in Split and (possibly) with great structural damages. Maybe she will never come to sea again. What a tragic end for this great ship!
                          Regards Sigve.
                          Last edited by Sigve; May 9th, 2010, 20:54.
                          Regards; Sigve.
                          ---
                          IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

                          Comment


                            To answer Steve.B's question if I would go back on an Antarctic cruise Andrea: actually I am in a doubt. I should say no but I liked the little ship so much (as did everyone onboard, crew and passengers) I would love to work on her again. Not that I am suicidal or anything! If someone would have asked me that BEFORE I knew about the ships issues, I would have said loud and clear YES! Now I'm not so sure anymore.... The sea conditions and the heavy rolling wouldn't put me off (I'm one of those who kind a like rough seas...) but the safety of the ship would make me think twice.
                            I agree with Sigve: what a shame that this beautiful vessel will probabily never sail again.

                            Here's a picture of the back of my head after falling backwards during one of the deep rolls....

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                              Ouch! That looks painful.

                              Were there any other injuries?

                              Clipper
                              ---------------------------
                              Harald Jarl, Honningsvag to Svolvaer, Summer 1985.
                              Deck plan geek.

                              Comment


                                Wasn't too bad, Clipper. Only sleeping was painfull, with my head on the pillow. Other than a brused tail bone (which took about 2 months to heal) I was OK. The funny thing was, when new passengers came onboard and they saw the state I was in they got a little bit worried!

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