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Photography post-processing: right or wrong?

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    Photography post-processing: right or wrong?

    Ombugge, here is a link to a post in which I described how to use IrfanView, which is free software, when janihudi was asking the same question as you regarding horizon-straightening.

    http://www.captainsvoyage-forum.com/...4&postcount=95

    (I should add that I don’t actually use it routinely myself because I have become used to PaintShopPro which is a similar software to Photoshop.)

    Added as a later edit:-
    I was momentarily puzzled when I happened to catch sight of my name as the thread starter here and didn’t recognise the title, but now I see what’s happened – my post giving a link to some previous information was simply a good point from which admin could easily move some photo-talk out of a shipping thread!

    Just thought I should explain as it looks like I hadn’t bothered to join in my own discussion!
    Last edited by Seagull; May 26th, 2010, 08:44. Reason: Explained move from another thread.

    #2
    Ombugge, you said "As you well know I shoot pictures, not creating images." I do the same, I like to achieve what I want on the spot rather than on the computer. That is not to say that I'm not tempted by manipulating photos for fun and as yet one more challenge to meet, in fact I've recently borrowed 2 books from the library on just that.
    But to me an artifically created image is no longer a record of what I saw and my personal challenge is to compose what I see into the best representation that I can before I press the button. Then I can truthfully say this is what it was like. That is why I take photographs.
    However, seeing your request for help in straightening horizons I was about to recommend IrfanView which a friend had suggested to me. Then I saw that Seagull had beaten me to it. I have used it to straighten up in some specialised closeups of bench end carvings I do and it's excellent. I have also used it for correcting colour bias in those pics., with varying success. I actually used MS Picture Manager (Photoshop experts will laugh ) to lighten midtones as in one of my 1952 tram photos.
    Anyway, good luck.
    Ivy

    "To thine own self be true.......
    Thou canst not then be false to any man."

    Comment


      #3
      Someone told me once that I should adjust my images every once in a while, either by autoadjust or manually by changing light, contrast, turn/rotate, cut and colours.
      I disagreed because then it would be like changing the world as I saw it when I took the picture.
      Then, after a good while, I started to adjust my images whenever needed, and it opened a hole new world for me....

      The programme I use to make my small adjustments and straighten up my images is the one that was installed in my laptop when I bought it:
      Microsoft Office Picture Manager.

      One photographer once told me that each picture is a piece of art from the hands of the photographer and no one should tell him/her that the image is "wrong".
      I do agree with him on that, but nevertheless, a sloping ocean horizon will always irritate me.
      But you guys out there, please misunderstand me in a right way: I'm not angry with anyone of you
      "IF GOD COULD MAKE ANGELS...., WHY IN HELL MAKE MAN?"

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Sterkoder View Post
        Someone told me once that I should adjust my images every once in a while, either by autoadjust or manually by changing light, contrast, turn/rotate, cut and colours.
        I disagreed because then it would be like changing the world as I saw it when I took the picture.
        Then, after a good while, I started to adjust my images whenever needed, and it opened a hole new world for me....

        The programme I use to make my small adjustments and straighten up my images is the one that was installed in my laptop when I bought it:
        Microsoft Office Picture Manager.

        One photographer once told me that each picture is a piece of art from the hands of the photographer and no one should tell him/her that the image is "wrong".
        Sterkoder, it depends, doesn't it, on whether you want a faithful record of what was there, in which case the art is in shooting to the best of your ability with regard to composition, lighting, colour, exposure, timing and heaven knows what else or whether the result you seek is an image resulting from a photo skilfully manipulated in software. Both are equally valid.
        I have a fairly good camera (for novices) but have yet to get my head round one half of what it will do. So at the moment I leave it on auto and confine myself to the zoom, macro and normal with/without flash and with heavy dependance on the anti-shake! But my over-riding ambition is, all things being equal, getting the composition right in the first place and making as interesting/attractive a record as I can on the SC. Thank goodness for digi and its multi shoots - something I take will hopefully give a reasonable result.
        Ivy

        "To thine own self be true.......
        Thou canst not then be false to any man."

        Comment


          #5
          So at the moment I leave it on auto and confine myself to the zoom, macro and normal with/without flash and with heavy dependance on the anti-shake!
          That's exactly what I do when I take pictures

          But there is one single thing I try to straighten up before I push the button: the horizon.....
          "IF GOD COULD MAKE ANGELS...., WHY IN HELL MAKE MAN?"

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Sterkoder View Post
            That's exactly what I do when I take pictures

            But there is one single thing I try to straighten up before I push the button: the horizon.....
            Yep, me too. But sometimes I'm so beguiled (tra-la-la ) by the scene before me that I forget to check that important line. Could blame it on my slight astigmatism, I suppose, although the surgeon corrected that almost 100% by inserting the new lens "on the slosh" when I had my cataracts done some years back.
            I also forgot to say that there's something else I've done - cloning. In that photo of the dolphin door-knocker on my thread Look Closer there was a large brass 17 immediately above the dolphin, and try on tip-toe as much as I could the top of the latter always overlapped the base of the number. Patting myself on the back I think I did a good job in getting rid of the 17, mainly in MS Paint (dear old-fashioned thing) where I could use rectangles, which suited the wooden door and then with free-form shapes on the close-up edges. IrfanView seems to deal only in circles.
            Ivy

            "To thine own self be true.......
            Thou canst not then be false to any man."

            Comment


              #7
              One photographer once told me that each picture is a piece of art from the hands of the photographer and no one should tell him/her that the image is "wrong".
              Now, who has told you such rubbish? (Not me!)
              A picture straight from the camera is a piece of raw material and has to be processed in a proper way.
              ---
              Regards; Sigve.
              Regards; Sigve.
              ---
              IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

              Comment


                #8
                Nope...., it was not you for sure...., it was Morten Krogvold.

                (But then again, I belive it was you and me who had that discussion about posting raw and adjusted images, wasn't it...? So, Sigve, thank you for talking me into adjusting my images before posting!!!).

                Now, who has told you such rubbish?
                Do you seriously mean that you or me can tell anyone posting an image here that it was a shitty one....????

                When a person takes a picture I tend to belive he/she does that to the best of that persons ability, and no one else can tell he/she that the picture is "wrong".
                My only point of complaint is the sloping horizon..., just because there are no such thing in nature (if you're not an astronaut of course).
                Last edited by Sterkoder; May 23rd, 2010, 15:44.
                "IF GOD COULD MAKE ANGELS...., WHY IN HELL MAKE MAN?"

                Comment


                  #9
                  About adjusting

                  Many pictures need adjusting, I adjust nearly every one of my own (in Photoshop), especially if they are taken in low light conditions, or strong sunlight. There is most often something in the picture that is too dark, or too light, or the picture can be sloppy and without contrast. And, as you say, the horizon is often at an angle...
                  As an example; Polarlys, a summer night at Bud; the picture straight from the camera is too light, bleak and contrastless. Not interesting at all:

                  When I adjusted it, I made it a bit darker to make it correspond better with my own impression from the moment. (And corrected the horizon!)

                  (Not the best example, but the one I could find in a hurry.)
                  ---
                  Regards; Sigve.

                  (
                  Do you seriously mean that you or me can tell anyone posting an image here that it was a shitty one....????
                  I wouldn't. Your quotation sounds like Krogvold. He would'n hestitate a second to tell anyone exactly that...)
                  Last edited by Sigve; May 23rd, 2010, 16:10.
                  Regards; Sigve.
                  ---
                  IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    More about adjusting

                    This picture of Andrea on Aurlandsfjorden is perhaps a better example.
                    Knowing that white superstructures (and ships) often burn out (overexpose), I underexpose the picture to get the superstructure right. But then the rest of the picture is too dark.

                    Then I lift forward the background, leaving the superstructure (almost) untouched, until I'm satisfied with the balance in the picture. Now I can see Andreas beautiful blue hull, and the picture is like I remembered from the situation I shot it.

                    Then back to Polarlys near Bud. The raw file from the camera is hopelessly overexposed and bleak (telephoto lenses often behave odd).

                    Doing an auto adjustment is a great help!

                    The picture is still not so colorful as I remembered the summer evening. I therefore apply som more color and saturation to the sky. Some purists will now say that this is going too far.

                    ---
                    Now this is maybe very OT to the worlds offshore vessels, so maybe Pakarang should move this discussion to where it belongs....?
                    ---
                    Regards; Sigve.
                    Regards; Sigve.
                    ---
                    IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I moved the OT into this thread because I would also like to add my two cents worth to the discussion whether post-processing is right or wrong.

                      I agree with what Sigve mentioned above, and with what Sterkoder also has realized, post processing is a part of the photography process. In my humble opinion, it doesn't make the photo any less "real" if you do so.

                      I feel that post processing is a part of the art of digital photography, and is there to compensate for errors done at the time of picture taking, either by the photographer or his/hers equipment's shortcomings, and to enhance the image in another more relaxed setting.

                      I'm fairly confident saying that almost every professional photographer adjusts his/her photographs after shooting and loading into computer: it's a part of the process.

                      The photos are still real and not any less of an image. It still represents a work, it still represents the moment it was taken, and it still is a fully worth digital recording.

                      Well, that is my two cents worth.
                      With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                      Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                      Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
                      Old forum: http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/
                      Join us: Save the "Kong Olav" on facebook

                      Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Oh my, oh my the Administrator FINALLY jumped in and stopped a long thread of posts that was blatantly OT. And I was even the first sinner, was I?

                        Well, I did ask the question about straightening horizon, but didn't expect it to get into a discussion about photographic liberties, or not.

                        As I said earlier, I shot pictures, I don't make images. I'm more occupied with what is shown then how it is done and composed.
                        Since I only have a small Olympus FE-4030 pocket camera with 4xZoom and 14 Mega pixels, I cannot 'compete' in the photographic game.

                        Besides, ALL my pictures are shot hand held. Many are shot 'on the run', or from a jumping little boat in choppy waters, so perfect horizon and sharpness are not always obtainable.

                        I found I have a simple straightening tool in the Olympus IB Photo Processing programme that came with this camera, which is only a couple of months old. All I have to do is straighten tings up, maybe change brightness, contrast and saturation, before transferring it to Photobucket.

                        It will still be a picture though, not an image.

                        Thank you for the info anyhow, Seagull and Wherrygirl

                        Comment


                          #13
                          i get more and more a feeling that a lot of members are computerwizzkids then photografher.
                          i still think that you make a picture as you see it,
                          not how to remake it on a computer.
                          and as the same as ombugge,i take a lot of images while i am driving,most of the times i am not in the oppertunity to stop get out straighten up the horizon and click.
                          and when a be home late in the evening,the last thing i want to do is straighten up the horizon,bringing more color in it etcetcetc.
                          it are just common shots,how ever when i making pictures that most conna be images like when i am hunting a ship like with the saga ruby THEN i wanted that the horizen was flat and the colors right.
                          thats also why i dont care that my pictures not wil be found in the elite photothreads.
                          Last edited by janihudi; May 23rd, 2010, 22:51.
                          best regards Thijs

                          Comment


                            #14
                            About post-processing

                            This little discussion shows us that for some of us; chasing a ship, shooting, and that's it – is the big thing.
                            For others; chasing a ship, shooting, and then doing some computer work afterwards – is the big thing.
                            The one doesn't exclude the other?
                            Then I hope that there will be room for contributions from both directions on our friendly forum...?
                            ---
                            Regards; Sigve.
                            Regards; Sigve.
                            ---
                            IF I WIN IN LOTTO, I COULD GO EVERYWHERE. WITH FRAM....

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Your quotation sounds like Krogvold. He would'n hestitate a second to tell anyone exactly that..
                              No, he wouldn't..., but I guess this is how hard he would drive his students.
                              I don't know if you know him personally or not, but Morten Krogvold has always said that great artistic pictures could even come from a 'engangskamera' and he have said (I've heared it myself) that it's always up to the photographer him-/herself to deside if a picture is great or not.
                              Yes, he have also said he will come up with good advice when and if someone ask him.
                              I have great respect for Mr. Krogvold, both his life story and his photography.
                              I don't care what kind of images people post here and other places and what quality they have....., as the 'kjepphest' of mine is only the horizontal horizon
                              "IF GOD COULD MAKE ANGELS...., WHY IN HELL MAKE MAN?"

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