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    #31
    Re: Only in America

    How strongly I agree with what has been said in the last three posts. I have no wish to add anything, Dane's exposition covers everything I feel on the subject. Thank you, Dane.
    Ivy

    "To thine own self be true.......
    Thou canst not then be false to any man."

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Only in America

      The gun scene in America is exploding. I have never seen such a run on guns and ammunition as the past week. The government is overwhelmed doing background checks and approvals. People are lined up outside gun stores waiting for them to open. All of the talk in Washington to limit or control guns is useless. Enough guns and ammunition have been sold in the past week to arm a medium sized country. Sorry Norway, I think the gun sales in one day exceed what your military has.

      I see rapid change in society as being dangerous and we have a massive amount of guns and ammunition hitting the streets like I have never seen before. People that have never owned guns before are going out by the thousands to buy a black rifle and high capacity anything before they "get banned". The first sale from a legal gun dealer is no problem. The buyer is known and has been checked. But after that it's the wild, wild west. I fear that in a year or two many of these guns will be sold and currently there are very few regulations and even less law enforcement. These tens of thousands of guns will soon be loose on the streets.

      Something has to be done... We have to start somewhere.... Yea, those are all great things to say but one gun store 20 miles away from me is selling over 100 per day and the small shop in my town (one of 4 stores in town) has sold 100 in the past five days. The horses have fled the barn while the farmers discuss closing the door, the best way to close the door, when the door should be closed, should the door be closed half way. Well, so many guns have already gone that any new legislation is useless.

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Only in America

        What Dane says is happening now was only to be expected. Even without that explosion in sales any new legislation would be useless. In the face of big business no-one has the guts to do more than just talk about "doing something".
        Dane says:
        Laws prohibiting drinking and driving and strict enforcement have done a lot but 20 years on we are seeing the real change in society that it is now "less cool" to drink and drive. Clubs and events have special prices and benefits for those that do not drink.
        but what could the equivalent in respect of gun ownership be?
        I think we are raising a whole group of people that don't really understand what shooting someone means. They do it in games day after day, year after year and nothing bad really happens. Then they get older and get "zombie" bullets and zombie targets. Now they have real guns with real bullets and no clue of what really happens when you pull the trigger. F'ing pathetic.
        That sums it up, Dane. And how many generations more of killing and maiming are to pass before children are shown that it is "less cool" to shoot each other, that there are more exciting games to play?
        Last edited by wherrygirl; December 30th, 2012, 01:08.
        Ivy

        "To thine own self be true.......
        Thou canst not then be false to any man."

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Only in America

          So, we will soon know what President Obama will propose in terms of Gun Control. or rather what he thinks he can get away with.

          I watched Fox News the other day, where a reporter was asking Rev. Jesse Jackson why there were 500 gun murders in Chicago, a city with the strictest gun control in USA?
          He explained that it doesn't help to have strict rules within one city when there are a string of less regulated gun shops ringing the city.
          Whatever logical statement he came with she just repeated the same question, like a well trained parrot.
          I know there are "freedom of speech" in the US, but a requirement to apply logic and common sense when you are broadcasting to the wide world would be helpful.
          Last edited by ombugge; January 16th, 2013, 16:59.

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            #35
            Re: Only in America

            Another thought on the subject of Gun Control;
            The argument that an Automobile is as dangerous a weapon as a gun has been used in the debate.

            Yes, I agree. A car can be a lethal weapon in the wrong hands, hence you are required to have a licence and training to drive one.
            The "weapon" will have to be licensed as well and you are required to follow a lot of rules when operating one, including which side of the road you are allowed to drive.

            If you fail to follow the rules you may be punished by a fine, or even confinement. You may also be banned from handling such a dangerous "weapon" if you are found to be a danger to other users, or innocent bystanders.

            As far as I know over 99% of Americans accept these rules and try to comply. (Yes, I know there are some extremists who find even this an infringement on their rights)

            Why is it then so difficult to accept some rules for registration and ownership of guns???
            Last edited by ombugge; January 16th, 2013, 17:30.

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              #36
              Re: Only in America

              I really do not think that certain films and certain video games are responsible. I think only the deranged would associate what they see in films and games with real life. And i think that anyone that is that deranged will go on to commit terrible crimes regardless.

              I for one have been brought up watching all manor of films, and have spent probably thousands of hours over my life shooting the hell out of people and things in a video game, but even in my darkest depths of depression i have never had any thoughts about reliving any of that in real life.

              But i have grown up in a culture where guns are seen to be bad, something you do not have in real life, and something you avoid at all cost because you know your going to jail if your ever caught with one. I have grown up in a country where only certain people were permitted to have a gun, farmers, game keepers etc. And all of those guns were only allowed for a specific purpose - shooting vermin and animals. If you were farmer and told the police that you wished to have a gun for your own personal protection, well, lets just say that your application for a firearms certificate would not be granted.

              I really cannot imagine what it must be like to grow up in a society where owning a gun is considered to be quite normal, let alone considered a right. Just totally different to the society i grew up in. Even if the laws in America were changed right now to something similar to what we have - not that i can see that ever happening, i think it will take many generations before attitudes and beliefs really started to change.
              Your charts, your radar, your eyes and ears - if all 4 agree, you may proceed with caution.

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Only in America

                Originally posted by Steve.B View Post
                I for one have been brought up watching all manor of films, and have spent probably thousands of hours over my life shooting the hell out of people and things in a video game, but even in my darkest depths of depression i have never had any thoughts about reliving any of that in real life.

                But i have grown up in a culture where guns are seen to be bad, something you do not have in real life, and something you avoid at all cost because you know your going to jail if your ever caught with one. I have grown up in a country where only certain people were permitted to have a gun, farmers, game keepers etc. And all of those guns were only allowed for a specific purpose - shooting vermin and animals. If you were farmer and told the police that you wished to have a gun for your own personal protection, well, lets just say that your application for a firearms certificate would not be granted.
                (My underlining in the above).

                But Steve, isn't that just the point? No matter what you may have played, you knew it was not in accord with real life. Our culture in that respect - as in some others - is vastly different from that in the USA. The viewpoint is diametrically opposed. In America ownership of guns is every person's right, here it is verboten with the few exceptions, and even then it is not a right but a concession for lawful activites.
                But I still aver that there is much too much sheer violence on TV. For example, I enjoy the detective series, Midsomer Murders. Yes, you get a brief glimpse of the corpse and maybe a flashback to a door opening quietly or a mysterious hand stretching out with the weapon, but then the rest of it is the gathering of clues, revealing the delicious tangle of relationships - red herrings all over the place. What you don't get is the everlasting boring car chases, boring shoot-outs, boring punch-ups, i.e. violence for violence sake, probably because the plot isn't in itself up to much.
                American children grow up with killing games, see their parents' guns in the cupboard in the corner and shooting becomes part of their life. They learn no distinction between make-believe and reality. You did.
                Ivy

                "To thine own self be true.......
                Thou canst not then be false to any man."

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Only in America

                  But i have grown up in a culture where guns are seen to be bad,......
                  I think i should have emphasised the 'But' a bit more...

                  BUT, i have grown up in a culture where guns are seen to be bad,......
                  Sorry, Ivy, i agree with you, i was trying to point out how different it was for us in this country where guns are not the norm. We no doubt play the same games in this country, and watch the same films, but we do not have the same level of gun crime, maybe that is something to do with the fact we do not have a gun in most households.

                  If we were to remove all violent shooting games and violent films from the lives of the young in America, would it really solve the issues with gun crime? Would that remove the 'gang' culture that we have both here and in the states? Would it reduce the number of drug related shootings? I doubt it. But, i think it's fair to say this, we in the UK only have a much lesser gun crime total than that of the USA because we do not have guns around all over the place. (Obviously we must also take into account the population size difference).

                  For instance, our riots of a couple of years ago, i wonder how different they could have been if nearly every household in the country had a gun or two laying around? And just imagine how much worse our inner city troubles would be if there were even more guns in circulation. I for one am very relieved knowing that not every 'tom **** and harry' on the street are carrying a gun or have one in the glove box of their car.
                  Your charts, your radar, your eyes and ears - if all 4 agree, you may proceed with caution.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Only in America

                    From Straits Times today:
                    WASHINGTON (REUTERS) - About three-quarters of Americans surveyed support proposals to ban the sale of automatic weapons, ban high-capacity ammunition clips and expand background checks on all gun buyers, according to an online Reuters/Ipsos poll released on Thursday.

                    Those proposals were at the heart of President Barack Obama's package of recommendations to Congress on Wednesday designed to curb gun violence after last month's elementary school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, that killed 20 children and six adults.

                    Mr Obama's plan has drawn heavy opposition from gun-rights advocates, led by the National Rifle Association (NRA), and faces a tough battle for approval in the coming months in a divided and fiercely partisan Congress.

                    The reinstatement of a ban on assault weapons, which was approved in 1994 but expired 10 years later when Congress failed to renew it, is seen as the toughest sell to lawmakers, even though the poll found broad public support for it.
                    Rhetorical question; If this is representative of all US states, how can politicians ignore it???

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Only in America

                      From Time Cartoons this week:


                      One more:


                      I say no more.

                      EDIT: OK, just one more:
                      Last edited by ombugge; January 19th, 2013, 16:15.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Only in America

                        I found this statistic for murder rate per 100,000 population in major US cities: http://www.redeyechicago.com/news/re...ties-20120-002

                        At the same time the number of violent deaths (Civilian murders and terror attack) in Kabul is reported to have been 142 in 2011.
                        With a population of abt. 3.5 Mill in Kabul Province, that give a "Murder rate" of 4.06 per 100,000.

                        That puts Kabul above New York City (2.72 per 100K) but below Los Angeles (4.19 per 100K) and FAR below New Orleans (32.65 per 100K)

                        The statistics quoted above cover only the big cities and is not necessarily the highest in any US City. (East St.Louis, Ill. had a murder rate of 77.8 in 2010 for example)

                        By comparison the Murder rate in other major cities, like London (1.1 per 100K) Tokyo (0.5 per 100k) or Singapore (0.39 per 100K in 2006)

                        Murder rate in the world is shown on this map: http://chartsbin.com/view/1454

                        The 50 most murderous cities in the world is listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...by_murder_rate

                        All murders are not necessarily committed using fire arms, but, when we are talking about the US, it is a fair assumption that a large number are. (In Singapore, none)
                        Last edited by ombugge; February 2nd, 2013, 11:08.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Only in America

                          This gets a bit to one of the current controversies. The politicians and news media are focused on assault/black rifles yet about 3/4 of murders in the USA are committed with hand guns. The last assault weapons ban largely drove the industry to develop new, smaller and more powerful handguns.

                          We must be careful what we ask for. We might get it and it will probably come around to shoot us in the ass.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Only in America

                            Has America become ungovernable??
                            It looks like the Republicans will allow the country to go down the drain just to make sure that President Obama doesn't succeed with any of his programs.

                            Do they think that people is so stupid that they don't see what is actually going on?
                            I know John Kerry just stated that; "Americans are allowed to be stupid", but surely not that stupid.

                            Hiding behind a 200 year old Constitution and a 2000 year old religion is not rational in a modern society. It is time to modernize and join the rest of the developed world when it comes to Healthcare and Gun Laws etc.

                            Cutting budget and saving time could best be done by sending the Senators and Congressmen/women home on unpaid leave and let the President rule by decree. They have not accomplished anything in the last four years anyhow.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Only in America

                              I don't think America is any more ungovernable than any other country and our political situation is still more predictable and benign than most. During the primaries Hilary Clinton and President Obama threw endless amounts of mud at each other but had a workable compromise after the election. Turmoil exists in much of world. I don't think you can throw a dart at a map of Europe without hitting a country in deep turmoil over it's debt and direction. Russia deals with rampant corruption. Australia's large military programs are a long running train wreck. Japan, China... Pick a country. Even peaceful Costa Rica is having border disputes.

                              I too thought that our current situation was really bad. Then I read more about our history and realized that somehow this dysfunctional has worked for a long time. The two parties have hated each other for a long time but still things sorta get done. I do think things are getting worse. Long ago politicians could work ins somewhat secret. Compromising while saving face. In the modern age where everything is reported I think their job is more difficult.

                              Believe me, if things truly go bad in The United States. Everyone on the planet will know.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Only in America

                                Don't know why my first thought of where to post this was just this thread, but....., well, I guess a radial engine powered motorcycle has something 'only in America' to it...
                                (Nice sound though!)

                                "IF GOD COULD MAKE ANGELS...., WHY IN HELL MAKE MAN?"

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