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    The market that comes to Bunga.y each Thursday sells in lbs. (pounds) with Kilos in small print. When Brussels demanded that we all go metric, we rebelled, secretly used our own measurements as much as possible. Then the govt. of the day tried to make us conform, we didn't and so now we use both. Keeps you on your toes, Ralf, and why should we obey Brussels? Yeh, typical Brit, I hear you say.
    I tell you what, I do wish they would stop measuring large objects in millimetres. I remember some years ago I wanted to buy a new bath. My bathroom space was limited, but I had to do quite a bit of pencil and paper calculation to work out what 1700 mm. looked like. I mean, how could I possible visualise it? Now, of course I just reduce it to cm. and all is well.
    Ivy, you are describing so well the feeling out in the sea on a remote island
    Did I use the word "remote"? No.
    Your industry in collecting all these facts is admirable, Ralf, my German/European friend. And the emphasis here is on the latter word. What matter the other two?
    But I really think we should now wrap it all up. After all it proves nothing very important. Let's just call it a day, before we bore ourselves to sleep, eh?
    Ivy

    "To thine own self be true.......
    Thou canst not then be false to any man."

    Comment


      I agree, we better let this rest now, before we loose our reputation as a friendly forum.
      To think that all I asked was why British media and and a large part of the population refer to Europe as if they don't belong there geographically and the people living on that far away continent as Europeans, as if they don't belong to that same race? That has not really been answered.

      I also raised the question if it had something to do with their status as a world leader and the British Empire?
      I think Ivy has confirmed the last very eloquently and with great enthusiasm.

      A question about my knowledge of UK and the people living there and my qualifications to have an opinion about that has been raise. No I have not lived there at any time, but I have visited and worked there many times, since my first visit in 1959. My last visit was a holiday in London some years back, with a side visit to my Father-in-Laws birthplace in Brighton.
      I have worked with Brits of all walks of life and from all parts of Britain for many years. Some with a great understanding and knowledge of the world and some with a total lack of it, as you will find in any population.

      Very few Brits, (or Americans) even if they have lived for many years in foreign countries, is able to speak anything but English. Why??
      I'll answer that myself; because English has become the World language, spoken and understood by a large part of the population in many countries and by some in most countries. The exception may be former French colonies, where French is still linga franca, besides whatever local languages is used.

      That is why I, having lived and worked outside my birth country of Norway most of my life, only really have had the need to learn that language, with a smattering of other languages to a lesser degree and mostly forgotten because of lack of use and need. Most people I deal with these days, regardless of nationality and race, speaks English to some degree.

      You will find that people in large countries with a common national language tend to be monolingual while people in places with a mixed population, like Singapore and Switzerland, frequently speaks several languages fluently.

      Ooops!! now I probably opened another hornets nest, like Ralf with the monies and measurements earlier.

      Comment


        O.K., i will then throw away my long list of quirky British attitudes (-or use it in another thread). In my opinion it is not so much the big theme, which hinders GB really to join to Europe, it is more the different way of thinking, calculating, measuring, driving and much more which makes people fear, they would have to give up much of themselves, if they join a Union. That is much more the point than any world politics or an old Commonwealth thinking.

        I used the word "remote" as a conclusion of your detailed description about the difficulties of crossing the water to Europe, Ivy. It does not mean backward in development. Describing all the attitudes does not mean calling them backward. It just is different, not more. And that makes the "together" as difficult as getting over that water. It works, but means a lot of work.

        Discussing this is for me of highest interest and i don't fear loosing any reputation. The differences makes the world so interesting and travels to an adventure. And looking at those differences does mean learning about them and get a better understanding. And a good understanding is an important step to begin a friendship.

        So i am sure, Ivy and me can discuss for weeks without getting unfriendly - i don't fear the frying pan, because it is used in a friendly way.
        Lofoten '07 ...... Nordnorge '11

        Comment


        • wherrygirl
          wherrygirl commented
          Editing a comment
          Language and its interpretation come into play here, and we have to be careful when we are not of the same nationality. I just picked up on your word "remote" as meaning many, many miles away out in the ocean and not on your doorstep. The meaning of "backward in development" never occured to me and I doubt if any dictionary would include that as a meaning. It could, I suppose, be used in an academic discussion on the development of mankind over the centuries, with the meaning of early man (i.e. palaeolithic, neolithic, etc.) being remote in development compared to modern man. But there would be better ways of putting it.
          The differences makes the world so interesting and travels to an adventure.
          And how! But, one day, in a century or so, those differences will have been eroded, the sense of adventure in discovering them withered for lack of use .With everyone moving about across the world and unions made everywhere we will all be just the same as each other.
          So i am sure, Ivy and me can discuss for weeks without getting unfriendly
          Of course we can, privately. We understand each other OK.
          Last edited by wherrygirl; November 26th, 2013, 05:22.

        • yvneac
          yvneac commented
          Editing a comment
          Totaly agree with Ivy.Express complex ideas in a foreign language may be a problem.You can easely realize that when reading my fussy english!
          Latin was the solution!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Having learned Latin at school I have in the past - in fact still do - find it a delightful help in deciphering the meaning of a word (English) with which I am unfamiliar, and when I have no dictionary handy. I can still remember the sentence which opened each chapter in our first textbook "Discipuli, picturam spectate." To parse: Vocative, accusative and imperative. (I had to think hard about the last one because the term was right at the back of my mind. But I discovered it and dragged it forward.) Later, I enjoyed our study of Virgil and Caesar's good old Gallic wars!
        English is such a richly polyglot language, having absorbed so much from other countries, often through being conquered by or conquering others. I love it, always have. It delights me when I discover the origins of our words, but etymology does not seem a popular subject and the proper study of our language is no longer taught in our schools. Vocabulary is becoming more and more basic, interesting words are dropping out of everyday speech. Maybe we are on the way back to the expressive grunts supposed to have been uttered by cave men??!!
        Ivy

        "To thine own self be true.......
        Thou canst not then be false to any man."

        Comment


          A tiny bit of "chatter" from me....

          A lot of (amazing) things have happened in my life the past month and a half - so much to tell, but let me write it down first. That is, in case you all are wondering what I'm talking about. hehehe

          Remember 11 months ago, almost 12 months ago, when some of us made an agreement that we were going to make 2013 a great year?

          All I can say for now: it sure have been an amazing year so far.

          I'll be back with the full story soon!


          With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

          Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
          Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

          Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

          Comment


          • Seagull
            Seagull commented
            Editing a comment
            Best Year Ever!

          • Ralf__
            Ralf__ commented
            Editing a comment
            So good to have you back here, of course we can't wait for the full story. It is possible to tell it in various posts, so please just start with it!!

          I am so impressed Ivy to hear that you have sung in the choir. This is the first we’ve heard of another hidden talent of yours I think.
          Cecilia, I have copied your comment to this thread, to avoid cluttering up Svein's thread - it's more appropriate to this Chit-Chat one.
          I don't know about "talent", more sheer delight, I would say. And if you delight in something you put everything into it 100%, so it will probably come out alright!
          When I left school I worked in Whitehall until I was married. At least, as it was a very new ministry set up by Lewis Silkin in Atlee's government, and Whitehall had no available premises at the time, the ministry's departments were scattered - mostly over the Victoria Street area and West Kensington. But my first building was in St. James' Square for a short time, then moved to Lowndes Square in West Ken., back to Tothill Street, up to Regent Street above Lawley's famous china shop where I found a very nice little restaurant in Soho just at the back. Oh, I got to know much of that side of London during those years.
          Then finally we moved into the building at the bottom of Whitehall - I think it's MOD now, but not sure. It was then that I joined the choir run by the Treasury - a few yards up the road. It seems strange now to think how there were no security arrangements then, apart from showing my own pass and giving the reason for my visit to the Treasury, no massive gates barring entrance to Downing Street. You could wander from Whitehall, past No. 10, down the steps and into St. James' Park, free as the proverbial bird. The choir used to practise at lunch-times and maybe after work, too, I forget now. I did a couple of concerts with them, the Messiah being one, and we sang in Westminster Hall - magnificent!
          Then, after John's death, I was teaching in the New Forest and when a new member of staff joined I found to my joy that she also sang. We both joined the Southampton Choral Union and used to go over to Soton after school for practice. I think we must have gone in her car, for when she moved away I could no longer go to the choir, not having my own transport. The only alternative was bus to Hythe, ferry across Southampton Water then bus to wherever we practised, but the connections would not have been good. But, while we belonged, the choir gave a concert singing Verdi's Requiem with a section of the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra under Charles Groves and that was a performance which almost brought tears to my eyes. To have an orchestra behind you is a superb experience, you all become as one.
          Moving up to Bunga.y in the late 60's I naturally joined the local Choral Society and after many years of not singing it was great. But my teaching demanded much work, I had no time to practise and I left the choir. Since then - nothing. I would love to sing with a choir again, but having a bit of a problem throat-wise I'd be no good.
          There you are - potted history, or bit of.
          Ivy

          "To thine own self be true.......
          Thou canst not then be false to any man."

          Comment


            Lovely stuff. The emotional and possibly spiritual connection that a choir can bring - from either the participation or listening side - is a remarkable thing.
            Cheers,

            Mark.

            www.pologlover.co.uk

            Comment


            • Seagull
              Seagull commented
              Editing a comment
              Wonderful memories Ivy.

            Computer and power problems.

            Just writing a quick message to say sorry if I have missed any posts or messages that we should have answered. With frequent power cuts and the computer crashing repeatedly (perhaps related) we seem to have missed many posts.

            In case we don't get back online between now and Christmas, we'd like to wish all our CV friends a Happy Christmas and a great 2014.

            Comment


            • Seagull
              Seagull commented
              Editing a comment
              Sharing some of your extreme weather at this side of the country tonight! Hang on in there, have a cosy Christmas and the very best for the New Year!

            I don't know whether to put this under Only in America or Only in China, so this is the compromise.

            Everybody have probably heard, seen or read something about the near collision between an American and Chinese war ship in the South China Sea?
            If not, here is an article from South China Morning Post: http://www.scmp.com/news/china/artic...near-collision

            What a "storm in a teacup". China was out testing and exercising their "new" Aircraft Carrier, although without fighter planes on board, in an area they had declared a "no go zone" in international waters.

            Not surprisingly the US Navy wanted to get a close look and record the acoustic "fingerprint" of the vessel, so they happened to have one of their Aircraft Carrier groups in the vicinity.
            Even the new Indian Aircraft Carrier, presumably friendly, attracted the attention of NATO warships when exercising off Norway earlier this year, and for the same reason.

            Predictably, one of the US escort vessel moved in close to the Chinese group to test their defenses and, as predictably, the Chinese sent their escort ships to intercept the intruder into their protection zone. When the US ship refused to turn, claiming the right of free navigation in international waters, the Chinese did what they needed to do to stop him, short of firing rockets and start 3rd world war, he crossed the path of the US ship at a safe distance, making sure the other ship had room to stop, or make a turn.

            Very predictably, both sides protested this dangerous situation. What hypocrisy. Nobody was in any real danger.

            If a Chinese war ship, or any other ship for that matter, had been heading close to the US carrier, the escorts would have intercepted it, which is their job.
            If such a ship had tried to claim their right to free navigation, it may well have had a shot fired across the bow, to let them know who rules the waters these days.

            Grown men playing dangerous games with expensive toys.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Gaelsail View Post
              Computer and power problems.

              Just writing a quick message to say sorry if I have missed any posts or messages that we should have answered. With frequent power cuts and the computer crashing repeatedly (perhaps related) we seem to have missed many posts.

              In case we don't get back online between now and Christmas, we'd like to wish all our CV friends a Happy Christmas and a great 2014.
              Sorry you have been going through it weather and computer- wise, Gaelsail. From the forecasts it was clear that you were getting the worst of it. It hasn't been all that bad the last few days, but I think we might pay for it tomorrow. Somehow, though, if it is coming from the west it often wears itself out before it reaches the wilds of East Anglia.
              Happy Christmas, anyway, and the best of New Years.
              Ivy

              "To thine own self be true.......
              Thou canst not then be false to any man."

              Comment


                We had a bit of discussion about the English language earlier on. Here is some of the English words that originated from the Viking influence: http://www.thelocal.no/galleries/cul...lish-language-

                I think there are many more such words with Old Norse origin from the time the Vikings ruled York and large part of the East coast, Scotland and the Isle of Man.
                A lot of Old Norse words would probably have been transferred via Normandy after 1066, when they ruled in England.

                Anybody got a more serious list of English words with Old Norse origin??

                Comment


                  Not only words in English have Old Norse origins, apparently a lot of place names are of Viking (Old Norse) origin: http://www.yorkshire-england.co.uk/P...ningsAtoD.html
                  And this only in the Yorkshire area.

                  It is probably more prevalent in Scotland, especially in Shetlands and Orkneys, where nearly all place names are of Viking origin, although anglicized in their present spelling: http://orkneyjar.com/placenames/index.html

                  Comment


                  • Seagull
                    Seagull commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Across the Pennines and in the Lake District many mountains are called 'fells' and waterfalls named 'force', both words of Norse origin.

                  In Normandy many patronimics (not mine coming from the South of France) and names of place descended from the old Norrois.
                  Further more, two importants words on this forum, bâbord and tribord (portside and starboard) are an heritage of Viking times.

                  Comment


                    I came across this - more interesting reading for you which includes some words and placenames of Old Norse origin. I lived in the area of Lancashire called the Fylde, including Norbreck in my teenage years. (Readers of this forum will most likely be familiar with Norbreck and adjacent Anchorsholme from the wreck of Riverdance in 2008!)

                    Comment


                    • ombugge
                      ombugge commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Paul would have had a few comments to this post, rest his soul.

                    Watch what you say and do on the Internet, especially on Social Networks like Facebook et al,

                    Some of you may have notice the media storm created by an id... (sorry, a less than considered individual) who posted stupid pictures and comments on his Facebook account about "poor people" and the Public Transport system in Singapore? If you missed it, here is a link to Singapore Seen website, with some late comments:
                    http://singaporeseen.stomp.com.sg/si...t-went-against

                    His comments went viral and became world news in a matter of days. He has now lost his job and have left Singapore, his adopted home, with his wife and
                    5-year old son.

                    I don't condone of making even more stupid posts, or threatening his wife and son, who are innocent in this case. (Unfortunately that is one of the thing that anonymity on the net "allows")

                    One of his colleagues stated that he had a "weird sense of humor", which is probably a true statement. If he made this comment in the company of other newly rich traders and wealth managers at the KPO Bar, all with their Ferraris, Lamourghinies and Porsche 911 parked outside, it would probably gone down well, regardless of ethnicity, nationality, or even gender. But when he put on Facebook it quickly backfired.

                    What is the moral of the story?? Don't put your foot in your mouth:

                    Any if you do, don't post it on the Internet!!
                    Even if you do, apologize sincerely and in person, not through a PR Consultant and with "mitigating" explanations. (That probably irritated even more people)

                    Comment

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