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Air France flight 447 missing mid-Atlantic on flight from S-America to Europe.

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    #46
    What I find very incredible is that the body recovered was fairly "intact"... due to lack of light and oxygen at the depths.

    Makes me think of the bodies that rained down on the wreck of the Titanic... they might have been intact for a lot of years as well.
    With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

    Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
    Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

    Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

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      #47
      I just hope they can recover helpful information from the recorders. I have always feared a airliner lost over the arctic or open ocean, lost without a trace. I really do not like the not knowing what happened. I am totally comfortable with accidents but a large jet going down without knowing the cause really bothers me.

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        #48
        I have to say that i am totally amazed the wreckage was found at all, let alone the flight recorders. A very small needle in a massive haystack.

        I should imagine that Airbus and various component manufacturers are all very anxious to see what information can be retrieved. I agree, it's the 'not knowing' that's the biggest worry, you need to know what the problem was for certain before you can address it.
        Your charts, your radar, your eyes and ears - if all 4 agree, you may proceed with caution.

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          #49
          Originally posted by pilotdane View Post
          I just hope they can recover helpful information from the recorders. I have always feared a airliner lost over the arctic or open ocean, lost without a trace. I really do not like the not knowing what happened. I am totally comfortable with accidents but a large jet going down without knowing the cause really bothers me.
          You put it in words just the way I was thinking... it's the "not knowing" thing that bothers me. A top-modern aircraft should not just fall out of the sky mid-Atlantic. They are designed to withstand incredible forces, and even a flame out.

          Originally posted by Steve.B View Post
          I have to say that i am totally amazed the wreckage was found at all, let alone the flight recorders. A very small needle in a massive haystack.

          I should imagine that Airbus and various component manufacturers are all very anxious to see what information can be retrieved. I agree, it's the 'not knowing' that's the biggest worry, you need to know what the problem was for certain before you can address it.
          I'm also very impressed that they eventually found the wreckage: the ocean is very deep and covers thousands of thousands of square kilometers.

          I'm also wondering who provides the primary fund for this search?
          With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

          Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
          Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

          Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

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            #50
            I don't know of any scientific reason why Woods Hole would undertake the search so I have to assume it is a fully funded expedition. In the end I assume it is funded by the French government but I have not found exactly which organization's name is on the check.

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              #51
              Re: Air France jet missing off Brazil

              Norwegian media has been quoting German media the past couple of days. It seems like the Captain was not present in the c0ckpit when the flight entered bad weather, and that he had asked the flight crew to "save the plane".

              The flight crew had however taken action and altered the route to avoid the bad storm, but for some reason, it encountered some of it anyhow. There are also indications that the pitot tubes was not working, giving the flight controls incorrect air speed.

              http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/ar...artid=10094173

              http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/ar...artid=10094314
              With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

              Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
              Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

              Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

              Comment


                #52
                Re: Air France jet missing off Brazil

                More news are coming out as the investigators study the flight data:

                http://www.dagbladet.no/2011/05/27/n...ance/16690140/

                Since I have little time today, and don't want to spend many minutes translating something few people read, here is the google-translation:

                Dived towards death for 3 minutes and 30 seconds.


                Air France 447 stalled and fell 38 000 feet at an enormous speed.


                Air France Flight 447 reared and fell uncontrollably in a tremendous speed as it disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean during a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris in June 2009. It shows the first data published from the process the printers were found on the seabed.

                The report, prepared by the French casualty Commission for Aviation, BEA, stipulates that the captain was not in the ****pit with the two co-pilots, but rested when the plane started on the fatal descent. This is common on long flights.

                The aircraft - the Airbus A330-203 - reared and fell 38,000 feet (11,500 meters) at three minutes and 30 seconds in an extreme speed of up to 11 000 feet per minute, equivalent to slightly in excess of 200 kilometers per hour.

                - The passengers on board felt likely to be weightless at times, "said flight manager in Norwegian, Thomas Hesthammer, to Dagbladet.

                - Completely uncontrolled

                The first alarm that the airplane stalled at 02.10, local time, and the autopilot was disconnected from it. After this, the situation changed for the worse. The captain entered the ****pit one minute and 30 seconds after that.

                Over the last few minutes increased the aircraft's angle of attack and remained above 35 degrees, causing the plane into a permanent stalls, meaning that the air flowing over the wings are unable to generate enough lift force to keep it up.

                The latest measured values ​​in the process of writing was clear that the nose was 16.2 degrees, the plane was 5.3 degrees to the left and fell at a speed of 10 912 feet per minute (3326 meters per minute).

                - This is a lot. What is special is that the plane has fallen into tremendous speed, while the nose is pointed upward. This has been going completely unchecked, "said Hesthammer.

                Extreme speed change
                The report reports that the two speed indicators were inconsistent and showed different speeds when the plane started to stall.

                "The measured parameters show a steep decline from around 275 knots to 60 knots in speed in the left display, and shortly thereafter the same in the speed shown on the integrated standby instrument system (ISIS), " the report said.

                - This is an extreme change in velocity, and may indicate that the plane hit bad weather, such as severe thunderstorm, "said flight commander.

                Recording calls on the internal communications reveal that the plane was in the clouds and turbulence experienced in advance of the reared and fell. They warned, among other things, the cabin crew that conditions would get worse.

                - In two minutes we enter an area where [the aircraft] will move a bit more than it does currently, so beware. I call you up once we're out of it, "one of the co-pilots.

                - Significant steps
                Airbus sent this afternoon issued a press release on BEA's findings:

                - The work represents a significant step toward identifying the full range of events that led to the tragic accident, writes Airbus.

                228 people - 216 passengers and 12 crew members - were killed in the accident.
                With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

                Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Re: Air France jet missing off Brazil

                  It seems the plane stalled out at high altitude and got locked in a "deep stall" of some sort with the wings level and unable to power out of it.
                  Nobody is sure whether the pilot pulled back and stalled the plane, or if the computers trimmed the elevator back to maintain altitude and would not
                  let the pilots override the "protection".
                  Airbus has some pretty extensive software built in to prevent the pilots from exceeding numerous limitations in control inputs and angles of flight. (roll, yaw, pitc)
                  Occasionally such "protection" may prevent recovery if extreme inputs are needed to save the day.

                  Not saying this is the case here, but certainly something the accident investigators will look at closely.

                  As for who was paying for the search and recovery of the boxes: It was a joint venture between Airbus and Air France.
                  Now they are blaming each other: Airbus is hinting at Pilot Error and possible poor training and Air France are hinting at malfunction
                  and or design problems. No surprises there.
                  Dead pilots can not defend themselfs and frequently ends up as the guilty ones. (Sometimes they should as in Egypt Air and the recent Air Afriqiyah in Tripoli)
                  Last edited by Norseman; May 28th, 2011, 16:50.

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                    #54
                    Re: Air France jet missing off Brazil

                    In Norwegian media ( http://www.vg.no/nyheter/utenriks/ar...artid=10081046 ) it is now reported that the pilots did several crucial mistakes in handling of the aircraft.

                    The aircraft, which crashed into the Atlantic on June 1st 2009 killing all 228 persons on board, had encountered bad weather and the pilots did not pay attention to early warnings and made several crucial errors. The reason for their incorrect handling of the situation was faulty training, and the lack of special training.

                    The pilots did not head to early warnings when the aircraft started loosing altitude.

                    Air France on the other hand defends the actions of their pilots and blame the aircraft's instruments, saying they did not work properly.

                    This report is the 3rd report created on this crash.
                    With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                    Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                    Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com

                    Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                    Comment

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