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Malaysian Airlines flight MH370

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  • I must say, it's very amazing they found this old shipwreck nobody knew of before, and that the suspense at finding the missing aircraft is mountable.

    I hope and pray that they will find the answers they are looking for, and not just all these speculations.

    What baffels me a bit though, is that it has become quiet about the "leap" in technology needed to find a way for voice and data recorders, and plane tracking devices, to last longer and to contain more information.
    With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

    Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
    Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
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    Comment


    • From what I've been reading in the aviation magazines there is no push for higher fidelity or longer lived data recorders. Apparently the current models record enough data channels to satisfy investigators needs and for the most part they are survivable enough. Technology has gotten us great recorders but the Achilles heal is that the recorders must be found. The discussion about recorders or data packs that are ejected during a time of distress have largely been dropped. There has been one confirmed and several highly probable crashes caused by a crew member intentional flying into the ground, a situation that might not generate an emergency signal to jettison a recorder.

      The push is for real time aircraft tracking . With that they hope to more reliably find the data recorders in a timely manner. The technology exists and in many cases the hardware like satellites in orbit and ground based antennas are already in place. Now it's down to choosing a system among the many proposed. Will there be one universal system or several? How much data should a plane transmit? How often should it transmit? Do they do a lower capability system that's cheaper and uses more existing hardware or a better system that might require dedicated hardware? Then they have to decide how quickly the system should be implemented.

      In the aviation industry things don't always happen as fast as they could/should but they seem to be moving faster than usual on this issue. At best I imagine some aircraft may never be equipped. New planes after a certain date will be equipped and most major carriers will upgrade their planes when they rotate in for major inspections & maintenance. Even major western carriers might take 5 or 10 years to equip all their planes.

      Comment


      • More wreckage "probably"from MH 370 found in Mozambique: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/02/us...und/index.html

        Comment


        • I read somwehere today that despite the time lapsed since it's disappearance, both China and Australia are very confident they will eventually find the aircaft and learn the reasons behind it's disappearance. I think it is important for everybody that they do. Something did go fatally wrong, and I think we all deserve to know what.
          With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

          Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
          Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
          Old forum: http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/
          Join us: Save the "Kong Olav" on facebook

          Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

          Comment


          • nari
            nari commented
            Editing a comment
            Probably pure speculation but as with the Barcelona-France plane, a deliberate crash is apparently the most likely cause, according to our local paper the other day.

          • Tommi
            Tommi commented
            Editing a comment
            In Swedish national radio the speculation was that the accident was caused by a fire in the cargo hatch caused by lithium batteries. I realize that the way to find out is to find the wreck.

        • If the Pilot, Co-pilot or someone else wanted to commit suicide and take the rest of the passengers with him, why would he/she or whatever wait more than 7 hours to ditch the plane??
          Besides, this possibility has been ruled out by the investigators, but the media like that theory better than facts.

          If there were a fire in the cargo compartment that would not kill the coms, unless it was an explosion, in which case it would have gone down in a ball of flames over the Gulf of Thailand.

          If it was a smoldering fire and the fumes seeped into the co*kpit and cabin, killing the pilots, crew and passengers, the tracking system would have continue to send positions and the automatic reporting system would have continued to send data via Inmarsat. This is an unlikely scenario as, even without an alarm being set off, the smell of the fums would have alerted the crew before they were overcome and become unconscious.

          Besides, if there was a fire on the plane that killed the pilots, crew and passengers without any warning, the plane would not have continued to fly for very long, unless the fire died by itself, in which case it would continue on the programmed path towards Beijing with all automatic systems working.

          If the fire alarm had gone off and the pilots and crew managed to kill it with the available fire fighting means at their disposal, they would reported the facts and attempted to landed at the nearest airport available, in which case this would have been an incident, not a mystery.

          None of which happened. The fact is that the plane flew on autopilot from it lost coms and disappeared off the tracking system map, until it run out of fuel and went into the sea, somewhere in or near the area they are now still searching.
          When whatever caused the coms to fail, the pilots managed to turn the plane and head back towards KLIA before they lost consciousnesses, for whatever reason.

          That the military radar reported several days later that they had tracked the plane flying over Malaysian boarder region with Thailand and towards Penang, then turned and headed NW until it disappeared from radar when going under radar horizon, is to hide the fact that nobody was alert enough to spot an "unknown" plane flying in their territory and nearly directly above the capital city in the middle of the night. Sounds ridiculous?? Not if you know Malaysia and the "tidak apa-apa" attitude prevailing.
          ​In my opinion, the plane that the military radar has plotted was another plane enroute from somewhere in S.E.Asia towards India or the middle east, conveniently manipulated and presented to the world media as MH 370.

          If you draw a line from the last know position towards KLIA and extend that line to the likely time the plane run out of fuel at normal flying height and speed, you end up somewhere near where they are now searching. The approx time of ditching is know from the Inmarsat pings.What is not known is what speed it was flying at, thus the distance it is likely to have flown. If the plane was flying at a lower altitude, or had strong head wind, it would have had a slower air speed and may have ditched somewhere North of there.(Tailwind = faster, thus further South) I assume that this has been taken into consideration and been part of the determination of the search area.

          Why do the media then still talk about the plane making an abrupt turn somewhere over the Andaman Sea (I.e. from when it was "lost off military radar") and then fly in an arch on a generally SE'ly heading? Because the only tracking left is the Inmarsat pings, which only give an approximation of distance from the satellite position, not direction, thus the route plotted by Inmarsat data is an arch. (Part of a circle actually)
          lanes on autopilot does not fly in an arch, unless programmed into the flight computer. (I.e. great circle navigation)

          Comment


          • pilotdane
            pilotdane commented
            Editing a comment
            This is truly one of the greatest mysteries of our time. Emilia Earheart a couple generations before is child's play in comparison and I still wonder about the Mary Celeste. At this point almost anything remains a possibility. But, if the aircraft is found I wonder if enough evidence remains to accurately determine the cause. The wreckage may only further the mystery by leaving many possibilities open and no clear cause.

        • So, the search are not far from the end - without a trace of the aircraft at the bottom of the sea.

          This mystery still baffles me every day.... and now BBC reports that the aircraft was intentionally FLOWN INTO the sea.

          http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36938480

          ".....Larry Vance told Australian news programme 60 Minutes that erosion along the trailing edge of recovered wing parts indicated a controlled landing...."

          "....According to Mr Vance, photographs of the recovered flaperon show a jagged edge, suggesting high-pressure water erosion that could only be caused if someone had been guiding the plane into the ocean..." "....The force of the water is really the only thing that could make that jagged edge that we see. It wasn't broken off. If it was broken off, it would be a clean break. You couldn't even break that thing...."

          Additionally, in the news the past week, there are several reports that MH370 Captain's flight simulator at home DID HAVE some routes which were very similar to the route of the disappearing flight, and that he had been practicing on flights ending in the Indian Ocean... though, relatives refuse to believe these reports.

          http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/...tevens-pkg.cnn

          http://edition.cnn.com/2016/07/22/as...ion/index.html



          Last edited by pakarang; August 5th, 2016, 15:29. Reason: Added the screen save from CNN.
          With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

          Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
          Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
          Old forum: http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/
          Join us: Save the "Kong Olav" on facebook

          Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

          Comment


          • This was one among thousands of routes plotted on his home simulator.
            The evidence that the plane was actively being controlled at time of impact is based on pictures seen by a Mr. Vance, who are not part of the investigation team for this incidence.
            The Flaperone is still in France and no official report on this yet.
            Here is an article from CNA yesterday: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...t/3018742.html

            I repeat; if the Pilot wanted to commit suicide, why wait for 7 hours to do so?
            There has been nothing tangible found that HE, or his co-pilot harboured any such thought, or had any reason to do so.

            Yes it is much "se*ier" to speculate on a Pilot killing himself and all his passengers then to report on the fact that the plan flew itself for seven hours, run out of fuel and crashed. The question of WHY???? is still unanswered. (In both cases)

            More interesting is the possibility that the plane had flown lower and thus at a slower speed than assumed, therefore did not get as far as assumed before crashing: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...e/2992614.html

            Comment


            • Interesting points of view. I guess it will all be speculations and nothing else, until the day they find the wreckage.

              As they say in that second article, the disappearance is "bizarre"....
              With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

              Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
              Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
              Old forum: http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/
              Join us: Save the "Kong Olav" on facebook

              Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

              Comment


              • What is most "bizarre" is that the media keep on harping on the possibility that the pilot did it.

                If the pilot was alive and in control for the duration of the flight, what about the second pilot, did he kill him in the co*kpit?
                If we apply the German Wings scenario and he was locked out, would that not have set off action by him and the crew. (Remember we are not taking minutes to impact, but at least 7 hrs.)

                The cabin door and bulkhead was presumably hardened, but not impossible to break with concerted effort by passengers and cabin crew. Tools available on board include fire axes and extinguishers, among other things.

                If pax and crew were alive during the entire 7 hr. detour, did he manage to keep them ignorant of the change of course?
                Even if he switch off the position information on the entertainment system, would nobody get suspicious, at least after the scheduled landing time in Beijing had passed?

                What about the cabin crew, would they not have understood that something was not normal at an early time and tried to take action? The plane must have flown across Peninsular Malaysia to get to the Indian Ocean, whether close to the boarder with Thailand, or close to KL. In both cases there would be mobile phone coverage. Would not the crew have tried to alert somebody that something was wrong, if they were alive and observant?

                Could he somehow depressurize the plane, killing pax and crew, yet survive in the co*kpit for 7 hrs. on emergency oxygen supply? As far as I know the supply only last for 1/2 hr., even for the pilots.

                More to the point; why would he keep on flying for 7 hrs. instead of ditching the plane immediately, once alone in the co*kpit?

                NO these speculations about a Pilot suicide is just that and kept alive by the media, not the professional investigators involve in the case.

                A much more likely scenario is that the cabin and co*kpit was depressurized for some unknown reason. The Pilot(s) managed to turn the plane around, heading back to KLIA but was not able to get down below 10,000 ft. before passing out. (Why they did not done oxygen masks first is a big question)

                The plane then flew undetected across Peninsular Malaysia (at what height is not known) and continued on the last set course and speed until the fuel run out.
                Nobody onboard was alive and in control when it ditched.

                As said earlier; could it be that the plane was flying at a lower altitude than 30-35,000 ft., thus at a lesser speed and corresponding shorter distance then calculated?

                Remember, the Inmarsat data only give approx. distance from the geostationary satellite, not direction.
                The sudden turn shown on the assumed track occurs as the plane being plotted by military radar disappears under radar horizon, From there on the track is based on Inmarsat data alone. (Distance, not direction, hence the two arches first reported as possible tracks)

                Could it be that the radar data given by RMA several days after the disappearance was not of MH 370, but of another airliner on a normal flight, coming from points east?

                The turn over Penang is typical of an airliner using the aerobeacon at Penang as reference point, before crossing the Bay of Bengal, heading towards India, or destinations in the Middle East and beyond?

                Why would this misinformation be offered? Maybe to cover up the inadequacy of their air surveillance, both military and civilian.

                Until the wreckage and "FDRs" are located we will never know, although with all the spy satellites up there, maybe somebody know more, but don't tell?

                Comment


                • It has been more than 1000 days since MH 370 disappeared and there are yet no verdict on what happened. But pieces of wreckage keeps on being found on beaches on the African side of the Indian Ocean.
                  Unfortunately this only prove that the plane did cross the Malay peninsula and ended up in the Indian Ocean, but not WHERE and not WHY.

                  So far the only thing that has been confirmed is that nobody tried to land the plane. It crashed when running out of fuel, probably with all crew and pax mercifully dead a long time ago.

                  Some of the families are spending their own money to look for wreckage as we speak: http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/cat...is-from-plane/

                  The search for wreckage in the sea is still ongoing: https://www.theguardian.com/australi...ys-search-team

                  Latest update: https://www.atsb.gov.au/mh370-pages/...tional-update/

                  Comment


                  • Last sortee to the search area has commenced: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...a/3366624.html
                    What then???

                    Comment


                    • Will we ever be able to find out what REALLY happened that fateful night when so many people vanished - including a giant aircraft.

                      What surprises me still today, is that it can really happen again. It is still easier to track an iPhone than an aircraft of this size....
                      With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                      Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                      Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
                      Old forum: http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/
                      Join us: Save the "Kong Olav" on facebook

                      Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                      Comment


                      • Nothing found in the search area: http://gcaptain.com/mh370-investigat...tm_medium=push
                        What is certain is that the plane crashed in the Indian Ocean, but where???

                        Comment


                        • ombugge
                          ombugge commented
                          Editing a comment
                          But there MAY be hope that search will be carried out in an area further north: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ma...-idUSKBN14901C

                          That make good sense to me, assuming that the plane was flying on a direct heading from it's turning point over the GoT towards KLIA and continued on this heading until it run out of fuel, probably at a somewhat lower altitude and/or slower speed then it's normal cruising speed.

                          One thing is fairly certain; the plane did not fly in an arch as assumed, based on estimated distance from a geostationary satellite.

                      • Interesting, but at the same time truly tragic and sad.

                        I do understand the frustration and despair of the relatives of those who lost someone on that flight: the not knowing part must be eating away at them. I feel so sad and discouraged that the search has not revealed the whereabouts of the aircraft, and that no solution as to WHY the aircraft disappeared in the first place, has been found.
                        With best regards from Jan-Olav Storli

                        Administrator and Owner of CaptainsVoyage.
                        Main page: http://www.captainsvoyage.com
                        Old forum: http://captainsvoyage.7.forumer.com/
                        Join us: Save the "Kong Olav" on facebook

                        Surround yourself with positive, ethical people who are committed to excellence.

                        Comment


                        • Then it is all over. The search for MH 370 has ended and nothing found in the designated search area: http://gcaptain.com/subsea-search-mh...without-trace/
                          Nobody know for sure what happened how and why, but one thing is for sure; it did end up somewhere in the Indian Ocean. BUT WHERE????? Will we ever know???

                          Like it has been stated; no use to keep on searching without a clear indication of where, at least within a reasonable area, the wreckage may be found. No surprise; Boing accept the decision to stop searching.

                          Rest in peace!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • pilotdane
                            pilotdane commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Titanic and many other significant shipwrecks have been found. Airplanes have a lot less mass and the aluminum is not magnetic making it even harder to detect. Maybe the cold temperatures and minimal oxygen deep in ocean will preserve the aluminum and composites until someone stumbles across it... eventually. I doubt the structure will help an investigation much but I am very curious what may survive from the recorders. Will the memory chips be readable?
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